Should Shinigami Kill Arrancars? (Dialogue)

Milosz: one thing struck me: Ichigo was stupid not to kill grimmjow
Milosz: after all, he’s a hollow
Milosz: and the only release from this state is to be killed by a shinigami sword
Ionut: mm
Ionut: no
Milosz: why not?
Milosz: even Hogyouku can only turn them into arrancar
Milosz: which is just a higher form of hollow
Milosz: but well, it seems to me these guys forget what they said earlier
Milosz: i mean creators
Ionut: hm
Ionut: what about nel?
Milosz: sure, she’s a damn hollow
Milosz: but i guess hollows can also be superficial
Milosz: not live according to teir own true nature
Ionut: :)
Ionut: I don’t know man
Ionut: how do you judge nature
Ionut: by what
Ionut: one’s nature
Ionut: at higher beings, I would say – by the way they live their life
Ionut: and grimmjow is a higher bneing
Ionut: higher = ‘capable of transcending nature’
Milosz: ?
Ionut: where nature here is …
Ionut: I mean
Ionut: the second time I used “nature” it was different
Milosz: yeah, i guess
Ionut: ‘capable of choosing good’
Ionut: choosing the good
Ionut: nel didn’t kill nobody
Ionut: and wishes well
Ionut: to all
Ionut: and those fuckers
Ionut: are hollows
Ionut: those funny companions
Ionut: why kill them?
Ionut: they are free enough
Ionut: they are playful and all
Milosz: well, but precisely here I see inconsistency in the series
Milosz: there is no longer any meaningful difference between hollow and shinigami
Milosz: but then what’s the meaning of the hole in arrancar’s chest
Milosz: ?
Milosz: they should be whole beings and just have a shattered mask
Milosz: that would be a perfect higher being
Milosz: In my opinion
Milosz: even if they are capable of behaving well
Milosz: by chance, by whim
Milosz: they remain absurd creatures
Milosz: remember what Nel played?
Milosz: endless game of tag
Ionut: hmmm
Ionut: absurd game
Ionut: ?
Milosz: yes
Milosz: pointless
Milosz: and never quite satisfying
Milosz: just scarying herself to forget all bad things
Ionut: right
Ionut: right
Milosz: push them under consciousness
Milosz: below
Ionut: but does she deserve to be killed? maybe love for ichigo can do the thing too, not just absurd games
Milosz: so I think she has a yearning for love and fullness
Milosz: and maybe she gave up on violent maens of reaching them
Milosz: but that means she’ll remain unfulfiled
Milosz: unless yes, she gets transformed
Ionut: you are right that they are absurd beings. but I don;t think they should be killed.
Ionut: unless they choose so
Milosz: well
Ionut: look at us! humans.
Milosz: killing would send them to Soul Society as ordinary soul
Milosz: wouldn;t that be better?
Ionut: well
Ionut: evolution is .. impredictible
Ionut: what you say sounds very shinigami – regulatoy – like
Ionut: regulatory
Milosz: yeah
Milosz: so you say that they may reach higher states?
Ionut: yeah
Milosz: ever higher?
Milosz: hmmm
Ionut: and even if not…
Ionut: they don;t hurt enybody. and they are not uhpappier than most humans I know :)
Ionut: unhappier
Milosz: true
Ionut: so why kill them
Milosz: well, because if they won’t progress, this means they will continue indefinitely an absurd existence
Ionut: many humans have that hole in them, and live their lives in endless tag games, without really hurting others
Milosz: if they’re send to Soul Society as full souls tey have a chance to progress
Milosz: yes, but that is temporary
Milosz: and then they turn into hollows
Milosz: and eat or are eaten
Ionut: there is no proof that the companions and Nel herself are going to kill for eating
Milosz: yeah. but my point is that it is cruel to leave them for indeterminate time in the absurd state
Milosz: instead of fixing it
Milosz: c’mon
Milosz: if you KNEW
Milosz: that killing people will give them better chances of improvement
Milosz: why would killing be objecitonable?
Ionut: it wouldn’t
Ionut: but we don’t KNOW
Ionut: we only heard it from shinigami
Milosz: right, but in Nel’s case we do
Ionut: that’s the official story
Milosz: hmm
Milosz: what do you mean?
Ionut: we don;t know in nel’s case.
Ionut: we don;t know that she WILL kill smb sooner or later
Milosz: you mean you don’t know what the effects of slashing her with a zanpaktou would be?
Ionut: and even if we KNEW it…. maybe she’d save a few souls by the time she reaches that murderous point in her life…..
Ionut: so she should be spared
Ionut: we don’t know what the effects of slashing her with a zanpaktou would be.
Milosz: aha
Ionut: even if we beliueve the official story
Ionut: she mught lose her extraordinary POWEER
Ionut: and become a small bug
Ionut: but as a bug, she won;t be able to help ichigo defeat Aizen
Milosz: ah, well
Milosz: sure
Milosz: i don;t say he should do it right away
Ionut: ok
Ionut: then he should do it exactly before she is at the murderous poiint
Milosz: he should certainly “kill” grimmjow
Milosz: in my view the issue is not her being dangerous
Milosz: suppose we know reasonably well she never would kill
Ionut: did grimjow KILL a human?
Milosz: I look at it from te point of view of HER good
Ionut: kill him dead?
Ionut: HER good is her will. her free will says she wants to help ichigo
Milosz: but then
Milosz: if she does not remember how good is not to have a hole in the chest
Milosz: she cannot make an INFORMED choice
Milosz: so I say I would make one for her
Milosz: after she helped ichigo
Ionut: and as a bug she can make an informed choice?
Ionut: between being a bug and being Nel no. 3 helping ichigo tragically
Ionut: ?
Ionut: after being a bug she forgets how it is to be arrancar no. 3
Ionut: the truth is you don;t know what it is like to be Nel – bug, and what it is like to be Nel – Espada
Ionut: what it is like to be a bat
Ionut: .
Milosz: no, we know that quite well
Ionut: do you?
Milosz: since we have hollows inside
Milosz: sure
Ionut: well.
Ionut: but the choice is not between smth like Ichigo-hollow and Ichigo-OK
Ionut: it is between Ichigo-tragic-hollow-doing-the-good and some bug with some remnant of Ichoigo
Milosz: no, not a remnant
Milosz: whole ichigo
Milosz: even if weaker
Ionut: mm
Milosz: but it’s the soul’s strength
Milosz: it can always be regained
Ionut: …
Ionut: what do you mean by “whole Ichigo”
Ionut: ?
Milosz: just ichigo, without a hole
Milosz: with the hollow folded inside him
Ionut: full memories, knowledge, feelings, personality?
Ionut: like a brain in a … walking vat?
Milosz: yeah, i guess
Ionut: no man
Ionut: it’s not like that
Ionut: if it were like that, I would agre with you
Milosz: well, you’re right that the hollow is a different personality
Ionut: but from what i saw, the afterlife is shitty
Milosz: well, it’s very unclear
Ionut: people are brainwashed :)
Milosz: but it seems to me normal souls have memories
Milosz: shinigami lose them
Ionut: look: if knowledge were the same, they would find their old network of friends
Milosz: well, they try
Milosz: but the city is huge
Ionut: …
Milosz: and people are being sent back
Milosz: we don’t know how


~ by aquinis on May 29, 2008.

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